20200218th-29th: Coronavirus COVID-19, Our Fifth Update Thread

Johns Hopkins CSSE Dashboard to update number of “official” cases within China and worldwide: https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6 Almost no one believes China’s numbers, and consider these numbers vastly under-reported.

We still don’t have a firm handle on this virus. The uncertainty leads to fear in a general population. Within this thread, we will share everything we know, culled from multiple sources. Thank you to all who contribute.

A New Kind of Warfare, a Bio-War, or Sudden Contagion:

The idea of a “Bio-Corridor” upon entry into the USA is being openly discussed and necessitates a new thread. This is an entirely new way of thinking and we need time to wrap our heads around the idea. Our goods go through a Customs screening but systems need to be updated and adapted for medical risk. Recently, we’ve seen illegal immigrants bringing measles, smallpox, polio, tuberculosis into our country. Diseases which were eradicated in the USA. A virus like COVID-19 is similar in in RO factor to Measles, but far more hazardous in risk to our citizens and economy. This makes LEGAL border adherence and a strict immigration policy mandatory…… just like those who came through Ellis Island long ago.

Health security has become national security and a globalist economy which only pursues short term profits has left us woefully unprepared. We can’t manufacture penicillin anymore or Vitamin C. Our last aspirin factory left the USA in 2004. We have ONE factory which makes surgical masks and sterile disposable operating room kits. And did you know a Chinese manufacturer recalled 9 million of those kits exported to the USA………. cuz they were contaminated.

With President Trump, we rebuilt a depleted military to fight conventional wars. We also turned our attention to the new war for the 21st century, the cyber war. Our enemies, specifically China, don’t need to devote billions to R&D and testing when they can merely steal our weapons systems for pennies on the dollar. Yet, how do we prepare for this war, the bio-war? Our supply chain and food supply must change. The USA is an MEGA exporter of Agri-products, BECAUSE our procedures and safety protocols are the best. We need country of origin labels on our food. Our ability to manufacture medicines must change. And China’s balance sheet and CCP subsidies must be dealt with, severely.

Here’s how the problem was created: Since China joined the WTO, they have successfully targeted entire industries to become the manufacturer to the world. In the USA, the “west”, and even India, companies operate on a profit/loss statement. They have to make money, otherwise, they go out of business. To gain dominance, China offers subsidies to their industries in the form of free energy, free water, capitol to build a factory, free land, or the most common way…. rolling of their bank loans. Remember, a rolling bank loan carries no loss. With this amount of subsidy, no private company in the USA/Belgium/ or India or Canada could possibly compete….. which is why Wall Street sent our factories to China.

Most economists believe China is carrying about 40-45 trillion in debt, about 3.5x’s their annual GDP, an amount equal to the USA having an 88 trillion dollar debt load. Everything ticks along nicely in China as long as the debt never comes due……….. With COVID-19, the debt is coming due.

Trump Administration timeline of action on Coronavirus:

Impact of COVID-19 on China’s Economy:

  • China has thrown billions into their local banks and reduced ratio of cash reserves to lending, and China was low on USD reserves due to tariff war with USA. The Chinese central bank plans to pump $22 billion into the economy amid reports that the coronavirus or COVD19 will lower the expected growth of China’s economy from 2.1% to 1.2%. It’s likely to be far worse.
  • Feb 20th, Goldman Sachs announces Coronavirus expected to impact up to 1% of GDP about a trillion dollars globally, market sinks 300 points https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaH79AEXMf8
  • Feb 24th, market opens down 997 points, begins slow slog back on fears of Coronavirus spreading outside China.
  • February 25th, another 900+ points, down. Over-reaction and media pushing fear.
  • Feb 20th, Proctor and Gamble (owns Yum brands) announces coronavirus will negatively impact Q1 revenue and earnings. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaH79AEXMf8
  • Feb 20th – 34 Members of a church in South Korea have tested positive for Coronavirus, US Army shutting down portion of base there, theaters and commissary. Update on Feb 24th – over 800 people in South Korea test positive. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaH79AEXMf8
  • February 26 – Over 1800 infected in South Korea, per Laura Ingraham interview with Americans in South Korea. Towns the size of Kansas City and no traffic on streets.
  • February 26th, per Laura Ingraham Show, over 800,000 people in South Korea calling for impeachment of President Moon…… because he did not shut down the border with China fast enough. (Guess President Trump is looking pretty smart)
  • Adidas and Reebok in Germany reporting sales down 90% in China. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaH79AEXMf8
  • Auto Sales in China, down 92% in February, according to Gordan Chang/FOX Biz.
  • Coal usage in China is down 50%. China gets 70% of electricity production from coal…. per Professor Christopher Balding, Fulbright Univ in Saigon, Vietnam – one of the world’s leading authorities on REAL measurement of China’s economy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYG8nglcx_o
  • Estate sales almost completely shut down. Gov’t revenue is highly dependent on real estate tax on sales. In a city of 20 million, we might see 5-10 sales a day. Professor Christopher Balding, Fulbright Univ in Saigon, Vietnam – one of the world’s leading authorities on REAL measurement of China’s economy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYG8nglcx_o
  • Local Transportation cars/trains running at 15-20% of normal, China economy flat-lining. Professor Christopher Balding, Fulbright Univ in Saigon, Vietnam – one of the world’s leading authorities on REAL measurement of China’s economy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYG8nglcx_o
  • Food Inflation up 10%, pork inflation up 100%. One of the biggest fears in China is famine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYG8nglcx_o
  • Amazon taking drastic action to get materials out of China and hold steady on Supply Chain (per Fox Biz, February 24th)
  • Toy Manufacturers concerned about Christmas items (last of our concerns right now)
  • Containers already in route to USA, carrying medical supplies, latex gloves, masks, surgical kits, etc., ordered returned to China. (FOX Biz Feb 24th)
  • Yield on the 10yr US Treasury bond almost hits all time low at 1.37% (Feb 24th) as foreign investors flood into safety of US Treasuries
  • Oil prices down, on report of oil use DOWN in China(Feb 24th), we knew it weeks ago.
  • Local Chinese business are reporting only 3 weeks of cash on hand
  • How many factory workers can survive 6 weeks without a paycheck?
  • Layoffs have begun in China to save the businesses
  • Chinese students in the USA report they cannot return home because mom/dad can’t afford to bring them home (not working), even if they could get a flight.
  • Hotel occupancy in Hong Kong is in single digits https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1Hud-ijzEo
  • 20% of Hong Kong restaurants expected to fail. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1Hud-ijzEo
  • January Chinese auto sales are down 20%+
  • Lumens (the measurement of light) at night from satellites over China is down 30-35% year over year https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1Hud-ijzEo
  • Railroad traffic, measured by satellite is almost at a standstill https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BvyBTMBR5c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1Hud-ijzEo
  • Reefer Units (a container which carries refrigerated goods) is plugged in when it arrives at port to maintain temperature. As of today, there are no more “plug-ins” available in the entire country. Shipping is at a standstill. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BvyBTMBR5c
  • Oil shipments have shut down. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BvyBTMBR5c
  • Approximately 80% of China’s export economy is shut down.
  • Farmers are having problems getting trucks to take their food supplies into towns for deliver…… system shutdown.
  • Apple missed quarterly earnings in the USA and forecasts delays in delivery.
  • Under pressure from leadership, the Apple factory reopened…. but only 10% of the workforce showed up for duty. Other province governors have barred companies from reopening.
  • China agreed to “half” their tariffs on US goods, looking for economic relief from the USA
  • Japan’s economy contracted 1.6% as they face Coronavirus (and a dumb idea about imposing a higher local sales tax more responsible for Japan lag in economy than COVID-19)
  • South Korea shut down their Hyundai plant due to lack of parts manufactured in China.
  • Statistics and information coming out of China are highly questionable.
  • Feb 24th, northern Italy shuts down. Milan described as a “ghost town”. Venice Carnival is cancelled. Schools, museums, theaters, religious events, all closed until March 1st, and re-assess. 55% of Italy’s GDP comes from this region.


How did COVID-19 start? What was the source?

We heard all kinds of rumors about the origins for COVID-19. First it was bat-soup, then Pandolins, but almost immediately we had a “conspiracy theory” about a bio-weapon accident/escape from a Level 4 lab in Wuhan, coincidentally close to the wet market. Did Coronavirus COVID-19 originate in Chinese government bio-weapon laboratory? Scientists believe killer disease may have begun in research facility 300 yards from Wuhan wet fish market. Senator Tom Cotton raised the possibility, was criticized, and proven correct by a study released on Feb 21st. Chinese Ambassador did not directly answer question in mid-February. Immediately CCP media calls out Tom Cotton. Odd…… Here are articles discussing the possibility:


What are the chances for vaccine for COVID-19?

Remdisovir, an AIDS drug is being discussed and we have some reports of success. Peter Navaro of the Trump Administration indicated approximately 100K doses would be available by the end of February as manufacturer of the drug, Gilead Sciences gears up production.

Other experts woefully admit it will be difficult to create a vaccine for Coronavirus, and even if they could, if everything went perfectly, it would be at least November before a vaccine would be available. Here are a few sources discussing the issue:


Snapshot information and stories from around the world:

  • Cruise Ship docked and quarantined in Japan, the Diamond Princess, docked off Yokohama: had 600+ infected persons, of 3700 passengers. Americans were evacuated from the ship, evacuated from Japan and flown home by the State Dept. 14 tested positive, now quarantined in Nebraska, and at military bases in Texas and California.
  • Feb 20th, first two passengers from Diamond Princess have died from Coronavirus. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaH79AEXMf8
  • Taxi Cab drivers and physicians reported the problem in Wuhan as early as December 8th-9th.
  • Official Death toll is 2,800+ (Updated 10:00pm Eastern, February 26, 2020) (could be thousands more) (current “official” dashboard from Johns Hopkins is located at top of thread)
  • 82,163 confirmed cases (could be thousands to millions) confirmed worldwide (Updated 10:00pm Eastern, February 26, 2020) (current “official” dashboard from Johns Hopkins is located at top of thread)
  • Hardest hit is Hubei province, healthcare system is overloaded, but we’re seeing death tolls reported from Jilin, to Sichuan, to Guangdong to Chongqing – it’s all over China.
  • Over 863 Police in China infected because of secondary contact.
  • Japan is second hardest hit. Party on board a boat seems to be the source tracked to 11 who are infected, virus spread from there.
  • Singapore has over 80 active cases.
  • Rumors of problems with virus in Thailand among sex workers. Statistics not being reported.
  • Feb 20th, Sacred Muslim city of Qom, Iran, about 80 miles south of Tehran, has reported 50 cases of Coronavirus, city is shutting down.
  • Feb 24th, Heshmat Alavi reports as many as 18,000 cases in Iran and serious problems with infection in Iranian prisons.
  • Cruise passengers from Diamond Princess released and flown home. Of 11 Israelis flown home one tests positive.
  • 3600+ Healthcare workers infected in China, over 1700 said to be in “serious condition”. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BvyBTMBR5c
  • As much as 55-60% of China’s physicians have less than a Bachelors degree. Nurses are poorly trained. Latex gloves are rare. Procedure and sterile protocols common in the USA are not so common in China, AND the further we get from large metro centers, the worse it is. Interesting discussion with the Director of Apple News in Hong Kong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1Hud-ijzEo
  • Director of Surgery for Wuhan’s most prestigious hospital, Dr Liu Zhiming, 51, died this morning (02/17/2020) after ‘all-out rescue efforts failed’, according to state broadcaster CCTV – resolving a state of confusion last night after local officials reported his death before later denying it. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8013267/Head-Wuhan-hospital-dies-coronavirus-Chinese-media.html
  • More contagious than Seasonal Flu, Spanish Flu, or SARS.
  • WHO team was allowed into China February 9th. USA has been offering assistance to China since January 6th. WHO team will be confined to Beijing, NOT allowed to travel to Wuhan, only allowed to look at data (which is unreliable).
  • USA delivered 100 million dollars of AID to China to battle the virus.
A map of Chinese provinces will help us get oriented within the country.


Where to go for more information:

Exceptionally valuable information is found in Pandemic Episode 15. Rosemary Gibson, Senior Advisor to the Hastings Center, took three years to investigate the state of Americas pharmaceuticals, culminating in the book “China RX”Did you know the last aspirin factory in the USA closed down in 2004? Did you know that the USA can no longer MAKE Vitamin C? Did you know tainted heparin from China cause many deaths of American citizens….. it was Made in China. And did you know that our politicians have known about the problem/national security/health security for decades?

Also within this program is an interview with Mike Bowen, Senior VP and owner of Prestige Ameritech, the last manufacturer of N-95 Medical Grade Masks in the USA. It’s an interview which will make you scream in frustration, and cry because of the ineptness of our bureaucrats and trade policies……. The facility used to supply about 79% of the market in the USA until purchased by Kimberly Clark….. shut down and shipped overseas, losing thousands of jobs and endangering Americans. It’s a must watch.

Episodes 18 and 19 discuss a great deal of the economic impact. Resources/interviews include the Director for Apple News In Hong Kong (discusses the healthcare system in communist China), and an associate professor at Fulbright in Saigon who analyzes the microeconomics of China (he’s the one measuring the lumens in China at night). Episode 19 discusses how the USA and India can address the problem of pharma and China virus.


Gail Combs reports and does a DEEP DIVE:

Gail Combs, fellow Treeper, is one of our best researchers. I believe she is a physicist. Wish I could give you her whole bio, yet this is the internet.… Gail has agreed to compile valuable info for us all, found below. Thank you, Gail! And thank you to BakoCarl for more resource links!


1. China does not have enough tests kits to document all suspected cases. The test can easily show a negative for people with the disease. Politically, China has good reason to lie. Also since it is a deep lung infection a cheek or throat swap can give a false positive. Coughed up sputum gives 11% more positives.

2. The virus attaches to ACE2 expressers deep in the lungs.
Men have 4 times as many ACE2 expressers as women and are 3 times as likely to get it.
Asians have 5 times as many as Africans/Europeans.

In early stats, (Jan2 – 41 people) less than half had underlying diseases BUT it does affect those with chronic inflammatory diseases including diabetes, hypertension, and cardiovascular disease (probably asthma too.)

3. Those without symptoms or with very mild symptoms can spread it. It can be spread via coughs, contact surfaces and with feces. Diarrhea is one of the possible symptoms. (Not good for San Fran-feces.)

Surface Survival of the Virus

4. We do not know how many without symptoms may have come over on early flights. Running a temperature many not appear immediately after contact with the virus.
”mean incubation period to be 6.4 (5.6 – 7.7, 95% CI) days, ranging from 2.1 to 11.1 days”

Revised: 6.4 –> 5.2 days. (~5 to 7 days) https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.02.02.20020016v1

”….time in hospital prior to death 10+ days I think for most of them….
…I have seen several references that said about 25% of confirmed cases get serious complications and something like 15% end up in ICU.”
 – Larry L.

76% of the confirmed 2019-nCov cases from 1 hospital in Wuhan required oxygen therapy.

5. According to MedCram US CDC/hospitals are using a SWAB (throat?) and 11 out of 178 tested positive. The problem is a throat or cheek swab while simpler to obtain, give false negatives while sputum samples are more reliable.

6. The first victim here in the USA required a long hospital stay of at least 2 weeks. He was still coughing after two weeks and therefore probably still infectious.

7. People the most at risk are 50 years and over with pre-existing chronic inflammatory diseases. (Patriot Nurse)

Mortality by age comparison between MERS, SARS and 2019-nCoV

TAIPEI (Taiwan News) summed it up this way:

…the Wuhan coronavirus has three features:

♦️ it is an RNA virus that mutates easily,
♦️ it is more contagious than SARS,
♦️ and it can spread from an asymptomatic person.

This means that even someone who has recovered from the virus can transmit it, making it more difficult to curb its spread.

As a result, Hsieh said it is possible that the virus could stay dormant in the body after recovery and come back to haunt the host in winter or when their immune system is weakened…. *


The virus is probably ‘free’ here in the USA. I t is more severe for men, especially older men and older people with chronic inflammatory disease. It requires a long hospital stay. Children may show little sign of the disease.

“What we think will happen over the next several weeks, will be more and more cases will begin to show up that have no obvious contact back to China,” –Michael Osterholm, Director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota.

THEREFORE the goal is to prevent rapid spread of the disease especially to those over 50 so the hospitals are not overwhelmed. IF the system is overwhelmed the elderly WILL NOT GET CARE!

1a: the sorting of and allocation of treatment to patients and especially battle and disaster victims according to a system of priorities designed to maximize the number of survivors


If you are older stay away from your grand kids! Larry L. suggested a 3 – 6 foot distance from other people, a pathologist suggests 6 to 9 feet.

Interesting items on survival times for various bugs on different surfaces and conditions.
https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/infections/how-long-do-bacteria-and-viruses-live-outside-the-body/ ~ or ~ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0021850217302239

Removing Gloves

”There is a minimum effective infectious dose. Greater doses increases the likelihood of infection. This also affects the incubation period. The lower the exposure, the longer the time needed for the infection to get going internally; and with that, the longer it will be before that person becomes infections and/or shows symptoms. Recall that most symptoms are due to activation of the immune system, and not from the infection itself.” — cdquarles 

For the painter/farmer masks: (N95 or N100)
3m has p100 filters with no sorbents, such as #2091, and then I saw ‘improved’ version #2291 I think. The 2091 are bright fuscia. I think I’ve seen people ambulating near Stanford hospital sporting these as facial fashion. Much easier to breath, and very comfortable with the 7502 ‘faceplate’. I had no sense of ‘rebreathing’ or claustro.

How to properly wear a mask- short video in link: https://twitter.com/i/status/1221247891714514945


Larry Ledwick  has a HOW TO
for homemade mask:

Many people wonder what they can do to NOT get the virus. If we think of Coronavirus like a “super-flu”, it makes sense to follow good general hygiene principles, eat well, and get plenty of rest. Here are some extra hints from Gail.

High dose Vit C for anti viral activity.

Nutritional Treatment of Coronavirus

Orthomolecular Medicine News Service, Jan 30, 2020 recomends, VERY HIGH levels of Vitamin C.

Please read the whole article. At the bottom are references and recommended reading.

In summary:

What dosage?
Vitamin C fights all types of viruses. Although the dose should truly be high, even a low supplemental amount of vitamin C saves lives. This is very important for those with low incomes and few treatment options. For example, in one well-controlled, randomized study, just 200 mg/day vitamin C given to the elderly resulted in improvement in respiratory symptoms in the most severely ill, hospitalized patients. And there were 80% fewer deaths in the vitamin C group. [7]
…The sicker a person was, the more ascorbic acid they would tolerate orally without it causing diarrhea. In a person with an otherwise normal GI tract when they were well, would tolerate 5 to 15 grams of ascorbic acid orally in divided doses without diarrhea…..
But to best build up our immune systems, we need to employ large, orthomolecular doses of several vital nutrients. The physicians on the Orthomolecular Medicine News Service review board specifically recommend at least 3,000 milligrams (or more) of vitamin C daily, in divided doses. Vitamin C empowers the immune system and can directly denature many viruses. It can be taken as ascorbic acid (which is sour like vinegar), either in capsules or as crystals dissolved in water or juice. It can also be taken as sodium ascorbate, which is non-acidic. To be most effective, it should be taken to bowel tolerance. This means taking high doses several (or many) times each day. See the references below for more information….

Magnesium: 400 mg daily (in citrate, malate, chelate, or chloride form)…..

Vitamin D3: 2,000 International Units daily. (Start with 5,000 IU/day for two weeks, then reduce to 2,000)…..

Zinc is a powerful antioxidant and is essential for many biochemical pathways. It has been shown to be effective in helping the body fight infections. [20,21] A recommended dose is 20-40 mg/day for adults….

Selenium:100 mcg (micrograms) daily…..

B-complex vitamins and vitamin A: A multivitamin tablet with each meal will supply these conveniently and economically…..
Nutritional supplements are not just a good idea. For fighting viruses, they are absolutely essential

What Does Taking Massive Amounts of Vitamin C Do to Your Body?


Debunking of side effects:

From a fellow Q-Treeper (sorry I did not keep the Id) I have added the studies verifying the claims.

A VERY over-simplified version of how viruses work, immune boosting, and what you can do NOW. This is esp helpful for at risk age groups, but good for everyone.

Those spikes you see on virus pics allow it to puncture your cell wall and use the inside of your cell for food. Immune boosters help strengthen your cell wall, among other things.

ELDERBERRY SYRUP – (Sambucus n.) Strengthens your cell walls, and is shown to bind to flu viruses, preventing them from invading cells and replicating.

ASTRAGALUS – Helps increase the bodies production of interferon, and, reduces water retention.

ECHINACEA p. – Provides inulin, which improves white cells ability to fight in part by increasing properdin, increases and activates white cells, signals the body to release interferon.

VITAMIN C – Helps the red blood cells transport oxygen thru the body.
Your lymphatic system runs along (mostly) the same paths that your blood vessels use. However, your lymph system doesn’t have a “pump” the way your blood vessels have your heart to move things along. Your lymphatic system helps with your blood system to drain out the debris from your dead cell walls, dead virus cell, and white cells, etc. Keeping your lymphatic system clear of debris is why you are told to drink lots of fluids when you get sick. That junk needs to be urinated out, to keep the lanes clear for more white cells to attack the virus. There are also simple excercises that “pump” your lymphatics. These are all online. If you catch a virus, there are more things to add that may help.

So, if you get sick:
INCREASE YOUR IMMUNE BOOSTERS!!! like, every couple hours or so.
Drink LOT of fluids

Add STEROIDS to help reduce inflammation if necessary. This can be prescribed or LICORICE HERB (not the candy, sorry!) can be used.

NETTLES – Anti-histamine, anti-inflammatory, and diuretic. Is helpful with drying up runny noses, too!

…Phenolic compounds could be defined as biologically active and herbal and have positive effects on health. The scientific researches are increased about the positive effect of phenolic compounds into coronary heart disease and high blood pressure, diabetes, cancer, inflammative, viral and parasitic disease, psychotic disorders


DANDELION – A strong diuretic, has Vitamin C and potassium. (Most diuretics take out potassium along with the urine.)

For fever, Tylenol or Motrin. Some people don’t do fever control, as the higher temperatures help kill the virus, but I have seen seizures happen from this, so I think fever control is a good thing. Also, if your body is fight aches and fever, those are cells which can be helping fight the virus instead.
Again, very over-simplified, but some steps you can be taking NOW, and some herbs you can look into to see what may work for you and yours.

There are a lot of sites like this:
15 Foods That Boost the Immune System

I recommend looking for the scientific studies (pro and con) that actually support the claims of any health remedy not prescribed by a doctor as I have done above.

DISCLAIMER: I am a chemist and not a doctor. This is just a compilation from comments at both sites that may be of interest to readers. Think for your self!

Logical thinking.

591 thoughts on “20200218th-29th: Coronavirus COVID-19, Our Fifth Update Thread

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