20200125: Coronavirus

The details of the Coronavirus are sketchy and unreliable, which is why I avoided posting a thread. None of us want to spread bad information, and we don’t want to OVERreact and spread hysteria. The problem with this issue is, that as fast as the disease is spreading, so is the bad information. Thus, this thread. Perhaps we can sort fact from fiction within this forum.

Most of the reporting refers to various provinces of China (like our states). This map might be helpful as a reference.

World Health Organization Link: https://www.who.int/health-topics/coronavirus

American CDC Link: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/index.html

The South China Morning Post is an outlet many of us follow. They are tracking the story closely. I counted a total of 25 stories about Coronavirus on their main page this morning. Here is their link: https://www.scmp.com/news/china

We know the US Senate has been briefed on the virus. Here is the President’s latest tweet:

This video is from a BBC reporter crossing a checkpoint in Henan (on the interior). He had his temperature checked before crossing the border.

Dr Eric Feigl-Ding, Harvard PhD in Epidemiology, and youngest dual PhD from Harvard SPH, has a thread which explains the contagen and the virality of spread, which scientists characerize as an RO factor. What is the typical R0 attack rate for the seasonal flu in most years? It’s around an R0=1.28. The 2009 flu pandemic? R0=1.48. The 1918 Spanish Flu? 1.80. This new #WuhanCoronavirus reproductive value again? R0=3.8 Reference for the typical spread rate of seasonal flu is found here: https://bmcinfectdis.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2334-14-480 and the model for the Coronavirus is found here: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.01.23.20018549v1 Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding is alarmed by the high rate of spread for this virus.

PLEASE understand, the above thread is alarming………..!!!!!!! Kyle Bass, the hedge fund guy who has specialized in China for decades responds to the info posted by Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding (above) as follows:

If we think of the Coronavirus as a super version of a common cold, then we should make sure to wash hands, doorknobs, switchplates, cover mouth and nose when sneezing, ……. and don’t eat partially cooked bat soup from China. NOTE: The CDC in the USA has changed their position and is specifically NOT confirming the source of the disease as the Wet Animal Market in Wuhan. The CDC has yet to determine the source of this disease.

Within this thread, please dump your comments and theories, videos and links. Perhaps together, we can all get closer to the truth.

389 thoughts on “20200125: Coronavirus

    1. wow…yr right…a LOT of good info there ab all kinds of current topics…good link !

      here’s one such item…pertaining to the coronavirus/China..

      article…

      China Deploys Military To Fight Coronavirus As Confirmed Infections Approach 1,000

      link…

      https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2020/01/24/china-deploys-military-to-fight-coronavirus-as-confirmed-infections-approach-1000/

      Jan 24, 2020

      China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA) to deploy to Wuhan..

      excerpt FTA…

      ” For this outbreak, the Communist Party has insisted that it has been diligent and transparent in combatting the public health threat and identifying …and sharing the genome sequence with the global governments…”

      and that’s so reassuring, isn’t it.

      Liked by 6 people

      1. Smiley2 – The number of reported cases doubled overnight yesterday. I think we can safely assume that if they are now reporting 1000 active cases, the real number is probably closer to 4 or 5K.

        Liked by 5 people

  1. Decent comment from WUWT, (my bold:)

    William Astley January 24, 2020 at 3:09 pm
    It sounds like it might be serious.

    The virus starts with a mild fever, for those who have symptoms.

    Some Chinese had been taking anti fever medicine, to fool airport fever sensors. as they were told that this virus could not be spread by humans and stopping people with a fever from traveling was only a precaution.

    A key concern is this virus has a long incubation period, 7 to 10 days, before people get very sick.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-51048366

    How severe are the symptoms?
    It seems to start with a fever, followed by a dry cough and then, after a week, leads to shortness of breath and some patients needing hospital treatment.

    Around one-in-four cases are thought to be severe.

    How deadly is it?

    Twenty-six people are known to have died from the virus – 3-4% of the known cases, but this figure is unreliable.

    But the infection seems to take a while to kill, so more of those patients may yet die.

    And it is unclear how many unreported cases there are.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51240355

    ….We have a crucial new piece of information – people with no symptoms of infection may be able to spread the virus.

    Scientists in China have published detailed information, in the Lancet medical journal, on the first cases in the country.

    It includes information on a child with no outward symptoms, but a clear coronavirus infection in their lungs.

    Prof Kwok-Yung Yuen from the University of Hong Kong-Shenzhen Hospital said “asymptomatic infection appears possible”.

    How often or easily this happens is far from clear, but it could make the virus far harder to contain.
    Prof Yuen said if this was the case, then controlling the epidemic would rely on isolating patients and quarantining anyone they came into contact with “as early as possible”.

    Researchers also said the new virus was closely related to one found in Chinese horseshoe bats.

    *https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/01/24/china-corona-virus-horror-video-hospital-corridor-of-dead-and-dying/#comment-2901679

    Liked by 12 people

      1. Imagine having to screen all products from the inbound container ships and flights from China.

        IMPOSSIBLE.

        What happens to GLOBAL TRADE during a CHINA-TRADE EMBARGO?
        … Recognizing how China has ENTANGLED itself into every Supply Chain?
        … Noting how many entire Supply Chains have EXITED to China?

        If and as CoronaVirus spreads to China’s neighboring SE Asian countries
        … where manufacturers fleeing China have set up shop
        … how do we accept imports from THEM?

        If we shut down USA Imports, what happens to USA Exports to all of the above?

        Who wants to send their ships and aircraft to China
        • For possibly-infected Chinese workers to unload?
        • Only to dead-head back to the USA without cargo?

        How does China feed their people without USA (and other) Ag imports?

        How does China consume their own Ag products?
        … With labor-intensive farming?
        … And labor-intensive processing?

        Liked by 5 people

        1. We had a longshoreman strike on the west coast, I think it was in 2014.
          Lasted about 6 weeks.
          Cost the country about 60 billion dollars as ships lingered offshore – most were Chinese vessels.
          No one in the media blinked an eye. In our business, it was a disaster unfolding.

          One thing I fear – Chinese will merely ship into Mexican ports, off load, and reload the ships. It’s been done before.

          Liked by 4 people

  2. That temperature checker guy… he sure gets close with that checker… I wonder how many peoples’ foreheads he has accidentally touched with that thing today.

    And of that number, I wonder how many were infected (whether showing a fever yet or not).

    And then how many people he touched that temperature-checker with after he touched the infected people.

    Seems like a great way to spread the coronavirus… or anything else people might be sick with.

    Liked by 7 people

    1. LOGICAL THINKING.

      Ending travel from China FIRST is logical.

      This isn’t the Obama administration, where we do useless PC crap to pretend to fight things downstream for worthless media tokens. We have to GET AHEAD of the epidemic and fight things upstream.

      Liked by 9 people

      1. Guess this means POTUS won’t be traveling to Beijing to sign the trade agreement! (Or, vice versa)
        Truthfully, like others here who have spent time in China, this brings me no joy whatsoever because I know that even the healthy, educated citizens in China are going to suffer severely with the cessation of tourism and business travel. I think of the numbers of workers that served us while traveling throughout China, both directly and indirectly, who will no longer have jobs (or tips), and it’s heartbreaking.

        Liked by 6 people

        1. Imagine the future under Obama, Hillary, or Tim Caine, where they worry about China First and there are 5% of American kids DEAD in every school in America. Higher in the preschools and kindergartens.

          The epidemic needs to be localized at ALL LEVELS. People staying HOME is how to do it. BURN IT OUT by preventing spread.

          In fact, cutting off escape routes for Chinese will help them begin to comply with government orders to hunker down and get control of the epidemic.

          Liked by 5 people

          1. Wolfie – did you see where the U.S. is sending a 230 seater airplane over to bring back U.S. Citizens who can afford to pay for it? Why shouldn’t these people be under the same restrictions as the Chinese? Just because they are Americans doesn’t make them immune. I thought this was so odd.

            Liked by 3 people

            1. I heard it slightly different. Plane was sent to extract Americans, 270 seater plane, 1000 Americans in the region, and it was official. We are closing our embassy in the region temporarily.

              Liked by 4 people

              1. Daughn, my info was from the Fox news website. Pretty close to yours except for plane size – extracting diplomats and their families first and anyone else who can pay if they can afford the price because it will be higher than a regular commercial ticket. Wuhan province.

                Liked by 3 people

            2. If we properly quarantine the people upon return (because carriers can be asymptomatic), then we DEMONSTRATE WITH FACTS what is going on. That gets past all the disinformation.

              People will be watching how we handle these returning people. If a bunch of carriers are simply let go without a thorough exam or some kind of quarantine process, and they spread the disease here in America, then those responsible for the flight will go down in history as INFAMOUS. On the other hand, if they quarantine properly or otherwise assure that no carrier slips through, they become heroes.

              WATCH AND SEE – make sure that RESPONSIBILITY IS PROPERLY ASSIGNED.

              Liked by 8 people

      2. I have a $5 bet going, but there is probably no way I will ever be able to prove it.

        President said he talked to XI. I’m betting Xi asked President Trump, personally, as a favor, to NOT ban travel to China.
        Cuz if the USA banned travel, every other country would follow suit, asap.

        Liked by 2 people

        1. At some point, people need to be logical. Even if we go past that point (where we keep the disease out completely), the sooner we do the right thing, the better.

          Right now, it may be better to keep channels of communication open. However, at some point, we have to do the right thing, or pay the price of NOT doing it.

          Liked by 1 person

          1. Communicating with my Japanese friends today that tell me there is a Japanese Honda facility plus several other Japanese-own large business in Wahun. I would guess many other nations have citizens on site, as well.
            Read earlier today even areas of Beijing are being closed.
            If this is an election year-impeachment false flag it seems to be doing a pretty good job.

            Liked by 3 people

  3. Another decent WUWT comment. I am reading through them and grabbing any comments that look interesting.

    jtom January 24, 2020 at 4:14 pm
    What WHO was reporting yesterday:

    “Symptoms in infected people have ranged from mild to severe. Around a quarter of confirmed cases are severe, according to the WHO. So far, the fatality rate is around 4 percent, though that could change as the outbreak progresses.”

    From what I have gleaned, the mortality rate of the flu in the US is 0.1%. It was 2.5% in the 1918 pandemic. If you multiply the number of influenza deaths in the US last year, 56,300, by the higher mortality rate of this virus, you get two and a quarter million deaths. The only assumption is that the infectious rates are about the same.

    The hospitals would be severely over capacity, but don’t know how badly that would affect the numbers.

    It doesn’t take much for nature to devastate mankind.
    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/01/24/china-corona-virus-horror-video-hospital-corridor-of-dead-and-dying/#comment-2901730

    Liked by 9 people

    1. Hey Gail, check this please. Slightly different results.
      Normal flu is 1.28
      Outbreak in 2009 = 1.48
      Spanish Flu was 1.8………
      This one is 3.8 = Holy Mother of God.
      See what you think.
      Source included.

      Liked by 3 people

      1. Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding…

        WIKI:
        American public health scientist who has received awards for his work in epidemiology, nutrition, and health economics. He is a visiting scientist at the Harvard School of Public Health and Chief Health Economist and Senior Vice President with Microclinic International.
        Born:
        28, 1983, Shanghai, China
        Lives in Arlington, Virginia

        He is also an expert advisor to the World Health Organization. His work focuses on the intersection of health economics and public policy.

        Chinese? ☑️
        HAAAaavard? ☑️
        UN-WHO? ☑️

        Sounds like a Commie globalist.

        Some where I read he was wrong the last time he looked at a flu. So I would place my opinion as GUARDED.
        ….

        It is quite possible he is trying to stampede the USA in to make a wrong move.

        If the president closes the borders and it is a false alarm it is going to ROYALLY PISS OFF VOTERS and business people.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. MOAR on Eric Feigl-Ding

        He is EU, Soros and Bill Gates connected…

        Paul Soros, the Soros in this article, was the older brother of George Soros.

        ….He is founder and Principal Investigator of several randomized trials of health interventions in the U.S. and abroad. Altogether, his competitively awarded projects as PI/CEO/Director have received over $10 million in funding.

        A World Economic Forum Global Shaper, he has worked with the European Commission, as a judge for the VH1 Do Something Awards, judge for the Soros Fellowship, and member of the Gates-funded Global Burden of Disease Project and US Disease Burden Collaboration….
        https://www.pdsoros.org/meet-the-fellows/eric-ding

        ….
        Interesting twitter…

        Liked by 2 people

        1. ” The search yielded 567 papers. Ninety-one papers were retained, and an additional twenty papers were identified from the references of the retained papers. Twenty-four studies reported 51 R values for the 1918 pandemic. The median R value for 1918 was 1.80 (interquartile range [IQR]: 1.47–2.27). Six studies reported seven 1957 pandemic R values. The median R value for 1957 was 1.65 (IQR: 1.53–1.70). Four studies reported seven 1968 pandemic R values. The median R value for 1968 was 1.80 (IQR: 1.56–1.85). Fifty-seven studies reported 78 2009 pandemic R values. The median R value for 2009 was 1.46 (IQR: 1.30–1.70) and was similar across the two waves of illness: 1.46 for the first wave and 1.48 for the second wave. Twenty-four studies reported 47 seasonal epidemic R values. The median R value for seasonal influenza was 1.28 (IQR: 1.19–1.37). Four studies reported six novel influenza R values. Four out of six R values were <1."

          This was the source he quoted.
          https://bmcinfectdis.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2334-14-480

          Like

  4. RISTVAN COMMENT!!!

    As usual very good info. (Face mask is not recommended.)

    Rud Istvan January 24, 2020 at 3:41 pm
    I know a fair bit about this as former decade long CEO of a topical antimicrobial company effective agains both bacteria and viruses, so will offer some facts followed by speculations.

    The common cold is actually symptomatic of a viral infection from three different viral families: rhinovirus, adenovirus, coronavirus, stated in order of prevelance. There are in total over 120 different cold causing human adapted viruses, which is why having a cold does not confer immunity. The next cold is just a different virus. And they morph, so immune memory of any specific birus is years, not decades. Same reason the annual flu shot is formulated for what docs think the next years three most common strains might be. They never get it right, so in a good year the flu vaccine might be 70% effective.

    Corona viruses are enveloped (they have a part human/part viral outer envelope membrane that is acquired during budding). For this reason, an alcohol hand sanitizer is reasonably effective against corona and adeno induced colds (it denatures the envelope membrane rendering the virus unable to infect a cell).

    Most common cold transmission route is hands (flu is inhalation why more revalent in winter (indoors dry air keeps exhaled droplets afloat longer since they dry down). But alcohol sanitizers still don’t generally work against colds (proven in outcomes studies in 2007), because about 60% of colds are rhinovirus based, a naked virus with no envelope membrane to denature.

    SARS was a civet corona virus that jumped species to humans in a Chinese wet market. Moderately infective to humans. MERS was a camel corona that jumped species in Saudi Arabia camel markets.

    Not very human infective. Wuhan corona also jumped species in a Wuhan wet market, but we don’t know yet from which reservoir species.

    Speculations.
    It must be more infective than reported, or the Chinese would not have imposed the draconian Hubei province quarantine. Human to human transmission is proven, a big problem. Its virulence (mortality) is unknown, except perhaps to Chinese. Reported is 2%, while SARS was about 10%. The 1918-19 ‘Spanish’ flu pandemic was ‘only’ about 5% mortality but killed over 40 million in 18 months. (It wasn’t Spanish. It was an avian (wild duck) H1N1 that jumped to humans thru pig intermediaries after the fall midwest duck migration in Kansas, then spread globally by US WW1 troops.)

    The Chinese face masks are ineffective. First, main corona transmission is not via aspiration, it is by touch. infected person wipes nose, touches a stair rail, then you touch the rail, then you touch nose or eyes (most people touch those several times an hour). Second, breathing thru the mask wets it, and any entrained aspirated virons have an opportunity to enter the nose or mouth, either way reaching their preferred mucosal membrane environment for infection.

    Is serious, but no need to panic yet as this real bad internet stuff isn’t (yet) verifiable.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/01/24/china-corona-virus-horror-video-hospital-corridor-of-dead-and-dying/#comment-2901708

    Liked by 19 people

      1. How about Betadine scrub…

        https://betadine.com/veterinary-surgical-scrub-and-solution/
        “Betadine® Veterinary Microbicides are not for use on food-producing animals. Povidone-iodine, the active ingredient in Betadine®, is active against a broad spectrum of pathogens in vitro.1”

        Unfortunately since iodine can be used to make bombs it is no longer available over the counter.

        I use a betadine shampoo on my ponies first thing in the spring to kill off the fungus that causes itchy skin from rain rot, girth itch, scratches, sweet itch….

        Liked by 4 people

    1. “SARS was a civet corona virus that jumped species to humans in a Chinese wet market. Moderately infective to humans. MERS was a camel corona that jumped species in Saudi Arabia camel markets.

      Not very human infective. Wuhan corona also jumped species in a Wuhan wet market, but we don’t know yet from which reservoir species.”

      _________________

      I’m already tired of this term ‘wet market’, sounds like a third-world abattoir.

      How’s multiculturalism working out for everybody?

      …………………
      Wet market: A live animal market, a common sight in many areas of the world and a source of influenza viruses and other infectious disease agents for human beings. SARS outbreaks have been traced to wet markets in southern China.

      Wet markets sell live poultry, fish, reptiles, and mammals of every kind. Animals may stay from days to weeks. Daily introduction of new animals provides optimum conditions for the development of disease agents such as influenza. Add the daily human contacts (including children) with the live animals, and conditions are optimal for the transfer and evolution of infectious disease agents.
      https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=26193
      …………………

      Liked by 2 people

      1. I’m beginning to doubt the SARS story, too. If the Chinese were using mail smuggling of research samples as a general solution in chemistry, biochemistry, microbiology, material science, and other places in academia, this may have happened before. They tried to use that wet-market excuse again, and it fell flatter this time because of the bust in Canada.

        Liked by 3 people

    2. “Not very human infective. Wuhan corona also jumped species in a Wuhan wet market, but we don’t know yet from which reservoir species.”

      ______________

      Try the ‘human species’ located at Level-4 Bio-lab, on China Ave., Wuhan District.

      You can’t miss it.

      It’s right next to the big incinerator.

      Liked by 2 people

  5. This might be worth looking into…

    Goldrider January 25, 2020 at 8:20 am
    Given what people who’ve been to China confided in several posts above about the relative lack of modern sanitation protocols there, I suspect that this virus is probably best spread under those conditions–zoonotic exposures, unsanitary eating and dishwashing practices and filthy toilets not to mention the sheer density of these urban populations. Just washing one’s hands might make a resounding difference.

    BTW, if you’d like to boost your immunity to every passing bug, the single best thing you can do besides hand-washing is to banish SUGAR from your diet. The amount of sugar contained in just one soft drink suppresses the action of your T-cells down to almost nothing for 6 full hours after consumption. Might want to re-think that Big Gulp!

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/01/24/china-corona-virus-horror-video-hospital-corridor-of-dead-and-dying/#comment-2902147

    Liked by 13 people

  6. Medical Definition of Wet market

    Medical Author: William C. Shiel Jr., MD, FACP, FACR
    Wet market: A live animal market, a common sight in many areas of the world and a source of influenza viruses and other infectious disease agents for human beings. SARS outbreaks have been traced to wet markets in southern China.

    Wet markets sell live poultry, fish, reptiles, and mammals of every kind. Animals may stay from days to weeks. Daily introduction of new animals provides optimum conditions for the development of disease agents such as influenza. Add the daily human contacts (including children) with the live animals, and conditions are optimal for the transfer and evolution of infectious disease agents. – https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=26193

    Liked by 6 people

    1. Not far from where I live, we have what amounts to “Chinatown.” There are a couple supermarkets that cater to these people. They do have live fish, but I don’t think the rest.

      I notice there’s no mention of lobster. Most full service grocers here have live lobster tanks.

      Liked by 3 people

    2. And, Omg, wet markets are the primary source of food in so many of these counties…definitely China!
      You point to a fish you want, it’s pulled out of the tank (ho knows the health conditions), it’s slapped on a dirty block, chopped with a dirty cleaver, handled by dirty hands, and then most likely taken into a dirty kitchen to prepare to eat. In Thailand the fish might be pulled from a filthy river in Bangkok and prepared on an open fire on the river bank..where the dishes are washed and the garbage thrown into attract more fish.

      Liked by 4 people

        1. Smuggling is ALWAYS the weak link in protective technology. Frigging parrots wrapped in tape and stuffed in sofas. Salmonella-coated turtles awash with turtle poop and water in food shipments. Smugglers are ALWAYS reckless. Even a careful researcher who sends hundreds of samples is going to become casual and mess up once or twice. If not from the beginning.

          Anybody who has packed or unpacked chemicals and other shipped research materials knows that there is LOGIC behind how it is done and one does not compromise. Least of all on MARKING!!!

          The problem is that smuggled research samples lose ALL THE BENEFITS of marking. ALL OF THEM. That means if you are sending UNMARKED dangerous goods, there needs to be a NEW PARADIGM for sending stuff – one that is HIGHER than the normal technology. Only professional spy agencies (see “Q”) understand that there need to be new and higher precautions to prevent accidents. What does that mean? It may mean camouflaging the samples as “properly packed but improperly marked” something ELSE.

          Would some normal PhD. researcher think like that? Would they think like a spy agency smuggling expert who creates some near-perfect hidden compartment that exceeds normal government shipping standards – BY A LOT – because the container is unmarked?

          NO WAY. These guys were amateurs, and they were being run by dodgy hubris-filled imitators of OUR PEOPLE (cough, Wolf is being nice to them for once).

          These people assumed that regular shipping protocols for MARKED samples were sufficient for UNMARKED.

          WRONG!!!

          Liked by 4 people

      1. Totally agree.
        The two scientists found in Canada were a husband and wife team, they were charged (stealing intel) and deported back to China. Level 4 lab, too.
        HIS specialty was coronavirus.

        Liked by 5 people

        1. It all makes too much sense. We have the exemplar. It’s all we need. Even if this guy didn’t do it, he proves the rule.

          Why do I say that?

          Spy agencies double or triple up. This guy could have had a COWORKER sending stuff, too, and would have never known it. One gets busted, the other keeps right on functioning.

          Liked by 4 people

      2. Could also have found its way outside of the lab and into the wet market where it found many ideal targets to infect. Chinese bio-lab security may not be equal to CDC/US standards.

        Liked by 2 people

  7. flashback…remember this sinister character….he died, fortunately, in 2015…

    …that was Maurice Strong…the father of the globallst “eco-control” movement (UN)….

    he said things like…

    here’s an article about him …

    …and depopulating the earth

    article link…

    https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/maurice-strong-father-of-the-globalist-eco-control-movement

    from December 2015

    …and as a refresher…here’s an article about how…

    The World and The UN Must Reduce Population Growth

    link…
    https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/new-sdg-dampen-population-growth-by-frank-gotmark-and-robin-maynard-2019-09?barrier=accesspaylog

    Sept 10, 2019

    The UN’s Sustainable Developmemt Goals…

    “…to end poverty…”

    “…to protect the planet..”

    “…to ensure prosperity for all…”

    …by reducing the world population .

    seems timely to mention the above.

    Liked by 12 people

    1. What if millions of regular people were to conclude that the principal risk to the Earth comes from lunatic Soros-type Globo-Fascists?

      In order to save the planet, the regular people decides: Isn’t the only hope for mankind that the Globo-Fascists are eliminated?

      Nothing personal, it’s just self defense.

      Liked by 1 person

        1. “That’s called MOB Rule the French perfected it just ask Marie Antoinette.”

          ______________

          Okay, then what is it called when Maurice ‘Globo-Fascist’ Strong says it?

          ………………………………………….
          Maurice Strong: “What if a small group of world leaders were to conclude that the principal risk to the Earth comes from the actions of the rich countries? In order to save the planet, the group decides: Isn’t the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse?

          Isn’t it our responsibility to bring that about?”
          …………………………………………

          If it’s us or them, I vote ‘us’.

          Anybody else?

          Like

            1. “Genocide.”

              ____________

              Then we should stop genocide.

              It isn’t just going to stop itself, someone (a lot of someones) are going to have to stop it.

              This is the thing that frustrates me to distraction.

              There is no happy middle ground where we do nothing and everything just turns out roses.

              Marquess of Queensberry isn’t running the show, Hannibal Lecter is.

              I don’t know if it’s a ‘woman’ thing or what the problem is.

              But I’m pretty sure it’s a ‘woman’ thing.

              Because my grandfather’s generation would have already killed all these *&^%$*#@.

              That was before Helen Reddy roared and an entire nation was emasculated by communist subversion.

              Like

  8. So —
    Might be time to stock up on respirator filtration masks.
    On alcohol-based hand sanitizers.
    On close-fitting disposable exam gloves.
    On Borax and white vinegar.
    On food and other supplies for 30 days.
    From what my late husband told me of his experiences in the Flu Pandemic of 1918-1920 (he was 8 to 10 years old at that time) — NOT telling anybody how to live their lives in today’s world —
    People washed their clothes in boiling water with Borax or white vinegar and hung them in the basement to dry. Might be a good idea to figure out how your washing machine could also do this (hot water setting / make sure the machine can deal with white vinegar).
    People who had telephones in their homes during that Pandemic arranged to be the “social network” for those who did not. Might be good to check on your own social network just in case.
    People “kept their distance” from anybody who was sick except in the case of a family member cared for at home.
    People kept their children at home during the worst part of the Pandemic. Might be time to discuss how this could be done in the family if the situation arises.
    People relied on themselves, their family and friends, rather than on the government.
    Granted, these are ideas from 100 YEARS AGO. But following them religiously did save lives.

    Liked by 10 people

    1. Almost all will be totally unnecessary if we do the right things early. 😎

      Doing the right things early also lets people know what won’t work to get our goat, or inflict their bullshit on us.

      CLOSE THE HATCHES!!!

      Liked by 10 people

      1. Gail Combs
        Back in 1918, most people washed clothes in enameled tubs, so my guess is that Borax or white vinegar added to the boiling wash water would be OK. Apparently one stirred the laundry in the tub with a heavy stick or pole, then took out pieces to rinse and wring. My grandmother had a “mangle” which was a hand-operated clothes wringer with a tub to catch the water.
        It should have occurred to me that modern plumbing and white vinegar might not be a good fit.

        Liked by 4 people

        1. A separate cycle with good old Clorox & hot water allowing it to sit should work well. Just use close you don’t care about for going to the market.

          https://www.clorox.com/how-to/disinfecting-sanitizing/cold-flu-other-diseases/flu-facts/

          You should see my methods for handling poison ivy. Two sets of clothes.
          Wash rubber boots outside
          Strip cloth gloves off pop in washer
          Strip off coveralls pop in washer.
          Strip off outer pair of socks pop in washer.

          SCRUB latex gloves

          Remove inner clothes and socks pop in washer.
          SCRUB latex gloves
          Remove gloves.

          I am VERY allergic to poison ivy but I do not get it.

          Liked by 4 people

          1. When I grew up in Germany all people boiled clothe and hung it on the wash-line. The sun kills much germs so does frost. I remember taking wash of the line in winter. The wash was stiff and so were my hands.
            People did not wear the clothe or shoes they wore on the street at home, I still keep that habit. Street shoe the shoes were whipped off and the soles washed with soap and water.
            hand washing was every time one came into the house and anytime before touching food and after the bathroom. My kids were raised like that and soon it became a habit.

            My son who works with viruses tells me soap and water are the best disinfectants. Clean the kitchen with hot water and soap and it is clean same the bathroom.
            I wash fruit and vegetable in baking soda or white vinegar. I fill a stainless steel bole with water and add Tsp of baking soda and let it sit for 15 minutes then rinse. Astounding how much dirt comes off fruit and vegetables. Sometimes I use salt for cauliflower.

            Now with this new virus I am putting painter gloves they are latex in the car. When I go shopping will put them on before touching the card and turn the insight out from my hands and discard them. I do not care what people think.
            I will go back to my mother’s habit washing shoes and leave them outdoor not bring them into the house.
            All I personally can do is to be vigilant practice good high-gene from my ancestors .
            In the end though all is in God’s Hands because I have no control.
            Funny people worry about nukes, climate change and all kind of this and then comes along this little bug virus that brings humanity to it’s knees. Priorities we build up defense reach into space and forget about unethical people who play with biological warfare. It is true China is the enemy of humanity because they do not value their own peoples life therefore no life..
            We need to fight for life because if we do not then all life looses value.
            God Bless President Trump.
            God Bless all of you and the United States of America.

            Liked by 4 people

    2. How interesting to have a second-hand account, close to the source, of that pandemic of over a hundred years ago. All the common sense measures still apply. Stocking up on food and supplies is important because, even if you don’t get sick, supply chains might be broken and store shelves might be bare (even if you wanted to venture out).

      Liked by 5 people

      1. My grandmothers washtub was big and wood fired. The basin was out of coper that kills germs. The water was brought to a boil and all white wash was cooked. Then the was wash taken out with a stick to cool and other wash was put into the basin. This was a whole day affair. One could hirer a wash woman to do the wash in your home.
        We have it easy today .
        Now I do wish I had bought a wash machine that sanitizes my daughter has one. Oh well maybe next time.

        Like

        1. “We have it easy today.”
          Yes! Every now and then something happens to remind me of that. I guess that, throughout history, if one was not wealthy enough to have servants or hired help, life was consumed with survival tasks of growing and hunting food, preparing it, work, and the cleanup involved with all of that. No soy boys or pink-hat-wearing women!

          Liked by 2 people

    1. About 15 years ago I was traveling to Thailand with a stop in Tokyo. We were not allowed to deplane and a crew in Hazmat suits came aboard to “fog” the floors of our plane. Looked just like the photo of Shanghai. Since it was my first trip to the region, I just thought it a standard practice. In fact, the next trip to Japan I was surprised when it didn’t happen again.

      Liked by 6 people

  9. It might be a good idea to stock up ahead of time on disposable, stretchy medical exam gloves for use while out in public. They can be bought in bulk by the hundreds and come in different hand sizes. The clear ones might be a better choice for not looking so conspicuous. They will have latex in them. Food service gloves are usually a looser fit and make for more difficulty in handling small items. Also, carry a small zip lock bag with you to put the gloves in when done with them. If not there are often trash cams outside public places.

    Roll them up a little at the cuff to make taking them off easier and avoiding skin contact with a potentially infected glove. The vast majority are made in China. Shouldn’t be a problem with stock currently in the U.S. If you buy at a place like eBay, be careful with where it is being shipped from. Many items at eBay are shipped directly to you from China. If there photos of the box that holds the gloves, try to zoom in on the different photos to confirm where they were made.

    I use them quite often for painting projects, or when I’m working on my vehicle when it involves handling greasy and oily parts. Also good for handling items with black mold.

    Liked by 5 people

    1. I buy bleachable Atlas 620 gloves by the dozen to use for heavy cleaning, dishwashing, yard work.

      They last for years. To wash when they are lightly soiled, wash like you were washing your hands and hang to dry on a skirt hanger. When the inside gets sweaty, smelly and dirty, such as after heavy yard or house work, I soak them in diluted bleach and Dawn detergent, rinse well, hang upside down on skirt hangers to air dry. I wash a dozen at a time, hang on a door hook, putting a towel under the gloves to catch drips. I can’t do without these gloves and would proudly wear them for driving and shopping if under threat from bio-warfare. Heck, I’d wear the wrap around glasses and bio filter masks too.

      Like

  10. My last post isn’t showing up. Retry.

    It might be a good idea to stock up ahead of time on disposable, stretchy medical exam gloves for use while out in public. They can be bought in bulk by the hundreds and come in different hand sizes. The clear ones might be a better choice for not looking so conspicuous. They will have latex in them. Food service gloves are usually a looser fit and make for more difficulty in handling small items. Also, carry a small zip lock bag with you to put the gloves in when done with them. If not there are often trash cams outside public places.

    Roll them up a little at the cuff to make taking them off easier and avoiding skin contact with a potentially infected glove. The vast majority are made in China. Shouldn’t be a problem with stock currently in the U.S. If you buy at a place like eBay, be careful with where it is being shipped from. Many items at eBay are shipped directly to you from China. If there photos of the box that holds the gloves, try to zoom in on the different photos to confirm where they were made.

    I use them quite often for painting projects, or when I’m working on my vehicle when it involves handling greasy and oily parts. Also good for handling items with black mold.

    Liked by 7 people

    1. You can get latex free ones. Chemist have them by the box load. The latex gloves are NOT impermeable to everything. Ie chemo drugs. These molecules would be a hellavalot bigger than viruses. Go for the purple or orange nitrile gloves

      Liked by 5 people

              1. Oh, and I have a tiny screen.

                OK, you’re claiming that RNA molecules are smaller than drug molecules.

                And I call bullshit, unless you can cite a specific drug I can go look up. It had better have tens of thousands, preferably more than that, of atoms in its molecule.

                RNA codes proteins, proteins are made up of amino acids, often hundreds of them. An amino acid can have up to a hundred atoms or so (eyeball estimate).

                To code for an amino acid–just one, of the hundreds in a protein molecule, you need three “rungs” of DNA, or three half rungs of RNA. Those three rungs, plus the phosphate backbone, are MORE complicated than the amino acid they code for. The average half rung is about 35 atoms.

                A virus has to code for many hundreds of amino acids, or it can’t cause the cell it infects to create proteins, particularly the protein shell that covers the virus..

                The smallest known animal infecting virus has 1759 base pairs in it, so the genetic material in it alone is 60,000 atoms or so…and this does NOT include the protein coat.

                That’s the SMALLEST virus that can infect an animal. I have no info on the coronavirus, I don’t know if it’s 66000, or much, much more.

                How many atoms are in the largest drug molecule? Is that molecule an outlier (five times larger than the next largest, say)?

                I looked up some of the drugs I have been prescribed, and though I didn’t count them, it was obvious from the diagrams that they’re all well under a thousand atoms.

                So…unless you can name a drug with a huge molecule (it would almost certainly be a protein) you’re just flat-out wrong. And if you can…you’re right about just that one drug.

                Typical drugs, no fricking way.

                Liked by 1 person

    1. OK. so if what this RN says is anywhere near the case, the Wuhan Coronavirus has already mutated to 2nd “generation” in about a month.
      This may be linked to what is (I believe it’s this one) in the New York Times article about the authorities already seeing new and different onset symptoms of infection including diarrhea and gastrointestinal distress.

      Liked by 10 people

  11. Wonders if it would help to include the Iran events in any time lines dealing with the Corona virus. Reason why on bottom (star on links because you’ve seen them before).

    July 5th 2019 *https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/chinese-researcher-escorted-from-infectious-disease-lab-amid-rcmp-investigation-1.5211567

    18 Oct 2019 Event Presented by Bill Gates Where the Cornona Virus takes center stage. (note recent 23 Jan 2020 MSN story that’s (spelled Micro Soft News) conflicts dates as with this happening in 2018 however this 2019 date is here: *http://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/event201/about and shows
    When/where
    Friday, October 18, 2019
    8:45 a.m. – 12:30 p.m.
    The Pierre hotel
    New York, NY

    May of happened twice? Or is Bill trying to cover up?

    Mid Dec 2019 First known spread of the Corona Virus said to happen.

    3-8 Jan 2020 Failed Mideast Entanglement with Iran after US kills Iran general Qassem Suleimani who was said to be possibly threatening other American Embassies finally ends with Iranian Civilian Passenger Plane being shot down by in Iran (8 Jan 2020).

    19-20 Jan 2020 Public becomes aware of possible Pandemic.

    Assumption being made is that failing to tar the President with Mid East events it then became China’s turn. In the early stages the possible pandemic could have been thwarted, thus the overlap in dates, but eventually was allowed to spiral out of control. Throughout these periods Impeachment dates were calculable all while knowing it will fail, thus the Mid East project to spur impeachment and then the China project were green lighted given the early likelihood that the President will be soon lowering the boom.

    Liked by 4 people

    1. I’ve also considered the Iran connection to this. China first reported “pneumonia of unknown cause” on December 31st to the WHO, which is the same day as the Iraq embassy attack (and two days after the strange New Zealand-connected synagogue/church false flags). Kind of weird how the cabal attempted to kick off so much stuff in those last few days of 2019.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_2019%E2%80%9320_outbreak_of_novel_coronavirus#30%E2%80%9331_December_2019

      Liked by 4 people

      1. Interesting in that the China project if true would mean they know they’ve lost the impeachment battle and are now moving on to either something simple like total distraction or are simply taking off the gloves. In such a scenario one might think they are willing to do what ever it takes to keep from being dethroned.

        Even without this theory, China is now in a very precarious position where their subjects are likely to get quite angry with them. Tienanmen Square type angry.

        Then back to the theory, Chinese powers involved might be a bit angry with their American counterparts like the venerable Shifty Schiff for failing in the impeachment mission and thus may have earned themselves some punishments. Okay, wishful thinking as I search for a the silver lining.

        Liked by 1 person

  12. A husband and wife Chinese spy team were recently removed from a Level 4 Infectious Disease facility in Canada for sending pathogens to the Wuhan facility. The husband specialized in coronavirus research.

    Liked by 6 people

    1. I think we have our culprit. The bat soup stuff is disinformation.

      This is all because of SMUGGLING OF RESEARCH SAMPLES.

      Assume they sent samples IMPROPERLY. Assume they sent samples REGULARLY.

      UNMARKED. That is KEY. No special precautions taken by postal or courier personnel.

      This sort of thing happens all the time in the mail. People who don’t follow regulations don’t understand the dangers. Lithium batteries, oxidizers, flammables, etc. They are too dangerous to include in bulk air mail, but when people try to get around the regulations, it’s even worse.

      If one of many virus samples being routinely sent was accidentally damaged in a mailing facility – something which happens routinely to normal, unmarked packages – then a postal employee who cleans up the package or handles it could get the virus.

      ALL IT TAKES IS ONE EMPLOYEE TO START IT.

      Liked by 7 people

        1. Yup. It’s just like drugs in the mail, which is a serious problem.

          People send a lot of crap through the mail that is NOT supposed to go through the mail unless they’re labeled and go by ground shipping.

          Lithium batteries are strong reducing agents, and normal batteries contain strong oxidizers. BAD COMBINATION. Sometimes lithium batteries catch on fire for no reason. Many things are flammable as hell and will soak paper to burn hot – even perfume, booze and certain solvents.

          But people – just regular people – not spies – send this crap ALL THE TIME.

          Imagine some half-crushed box of “something” that also contained virus samples. Or the spy who sent them didn’t pressure seal the samples inside multiple layers of airtight protection, so that there were AIR LEAKS from JUST ONE SAMPLE.

          That’s all it takes to start an epidemic.

          Chinese SPY ORGS screwed up here. Pure and simple. Their spying is so pervasive and over the top, they actually had AMATEURS trying to do JAMES BOND capers.

          Liked by 8 people

          1. Hehe – Massachusetts does not allow fireworks. We were planning a party and I wanted some. I sent Big T a WHOLE SUITCASE, bound with duct tape, through the mail.
            Insured it.
            Said “fireworks” on the package.
            Big T almost had a heart attack when he received it.

            Liked by 5 people

            1. I’m surprised the post office accepted a package marked ‘fireworks’.

              IIRC, even regular ammo, which has to be more inherently stable than Blackcat bottle rockets and firecrackers, when sent through the mail, is marked “Ord-D” (ordinance) and requires heavy packaging (judging by packages I may or may not have received, which if I did receive, may have been lost in a fishing accident).

              Liked by 2 people

              1. Couple suggested tweaks to the above. Also learned the new DOT regulation when I Googled ORM-D and ammunition shipping.

                NEW DOT shipping for small arms ammunition.
                – As of January 1, 2014 you will no longer be allowed to ship ammunition via ORM-D it has been replaced by Limited Qty Diamond Label.
                – Types of ammunition this applies to IS the same as previous ORM-D for ammunition. Details below in ORM-D section.
                – “Sturdy packaging” required.
                *https://www.royalarms.com/shipping-ammunition-via-ground-49-cfr-orm-d-replaced-by-limited-qty/

                PREVIOUS labeling requirement, also addressed above.
                – ORM-D (Otherwsie Regulated Material – For Domsetic Use).
                – To qualify as “Cartridges, small arms ORM-D” or limited quantity, ammunition must be: Ammunition that does not exceed 12.7 mm (50 caliber or 0.5 inch) for rifle or pistol cartridges or 8 gauge for shotgun shells; or. Ammunition with inert projectiles or blank ammunition.
                *https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=Is+ammunition+ORM-D%3F

                AND, COINCIDENCE IT IS, AS WITH SCOTT ABOVE, “(judging by packages I may or may not have received, which if I did receive, may have been lost in a fishing accident).”

                AND YES, I may or may not have seen those “Limited Qty Diamond Label”, on one or moar or zero shipments. 😉 🙂 😉

                Liked by 1 person

              2. Thank you for the correction, my memory (if I had cause to have any such memory) about ‘ORD-D’ was clearly mistaken, and should have been ‘ORM-D’, for “Otherwsie Regulated Material – For Domsetic Use”. 👍

                Like

        1. Oh, yeah. And I will bet that these researchers were NOT just sending one or two samples.

          WHY? Because you have to think like a competing org trying to compete. Say there are 10 lines of interest in a SINGLE study. You don’t send one sample in one study to get ahead – you send ALL OF THEM. The amount of WORK SAVED and the amount of GET-AHEAD that you need absolutely dictate that you send as much as you can.

          Oh, we have the culprit. You send a LOT of samples, and it means one or two of them are going to leak.

          It’s all you need.

          And none of them are marked. They get THROWN AROUND during transit.

          Most people don’t pack stuff worth crap. I’m a MANIAC PACKER. When I pack my wife’s precious gifts to her friends, I can THROW THE PACKAGE AGAINST THE WALL.

          Those ChiCom spies were NOT packing to WOLF STANDARDS – trust me. I spent too much time around lazy ass, corrupt arrogant Chi-spies. Only their MILITARY PROS were the kind who would likely pack a coronavirus sample properly. The civilian scientists included a lot of goldbricks and mediocre fuck-ups who caused all kinds of trouble in their cover jobs just by their normal air-headed screw-ups.

          Liked by 7 people

          1. Also correct packing might alert authorities.

            I used to have to send chemical samples. BOY what a PAIN. Everything triple packed to prevent spills.

            Liked by 5 people

            1. Exactly! And if you mark – EVEN AS SOMETHING ELSE – it draws attention.

              So if they send the stuff as batteries, and the package gets X-rayed and the batteries LOOK WRONG – well, there you go. Program BLOWN.

              So they almost surely went with unmarked. And THIS is the result.

              Liked by 2 people

      1. “If one of many virus samples being routinely sent was accidentally damaged in a mailing facility – something which happens routinely to normal, unmarked packages – then a postal employee who cleans up the package or handles it could get the virus.

        ALL IT TAKES IS ONE EMPLOYEE TO START IT.”

        ______________

        Which is why smuggling such hazardous materials should be a death penalty offense.

        You’re caught, you’re dead.

        Liked by 2 people

      2. here’s some more info on that story…

        article…

        Questions Surround Canadian Shipment of Deadly Viruses To China

        link…

        https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/questions-surround-canadian-shipment-of-deadly-viruses-to-china-66254

        Aug 9, 2019

        the same Winnipeg lab that sent Ebola and Henipah viruses to Beijing recently removed a number of researchers for an “administrative issue”…

        …including Xiangguo Qui and her colleague-husband Keding Cheng

        “…many suspicions from experts in biochemical warfare who say they think China may use the pathogens to develop offensive biological agents.

        a lot more at the link incl more details about the “administrative issue” .

        national security risks there !

        Liked by 4 people

        1. Also at that site: Excess of Immune Cells Found in Brains of People with Autism

          An accumulation of T cells and astrocytes in postmortem brain tissue hints at possible autoimmune origins for many cases of autism…..

          examining slices of postmortem brain tissue from an individual with autism under a microscope when he noticed something extremely odd: T cells swarming around a narrow space between blood vessels and neural tissue. The cells were somehow getting through the blood-brain barrier, a wall of cells that separates circulating blood from extracellular fluid, neurons, and other cell types in the central nervous system, explains Anderson, who works at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston. “I just have seen so many brains that I know that this is not normal.”

          He soon identified more T-cell swarms, called lymphocytic cuffs, in a few other postmortem brains of people who had been diagnosed with autism. Not long after that, he started to detect another oddity in the brain tissue—tiny bubbles, or blebs. “I’d never seen them in any other brain tissue that I’ve looked at for many, many different diseases,” he says. Anderson began to wonder whether the neurological features he was observing were specific to autism…..

          Could this accumulation of T-cells be CAUSED by vaccinations too early and too frequently? Is this the link between Autism and vaccination.

          Remember a vaccination is designed to stimulate T-cells.
          https://sciencing.com/how-do-vaccines-work-with-the-immune-system-13710343.html

          Liked by 3 people

  13. I am going to repost this timeline I did on the first page.

    TIMELINE

    May 24, 2019 — Shipment of Level 4 pathogens from Canada to China

    July 5, 2019 — Chinese scientists Removal

    October 2019 — World Economic Forum, and Gates Foundation presentation features a new CORONA VIRUS that leads to a global pandemic.

    December 31, 2019 — cluster of illnesses was initially reported to the WHO China Country Office.

    January 1, 2020 — China’s Wet market was closed

    7 January 2020 — The Chinese authorities identified & isolated a new type of coronavirus (novel coronavirus, nCoV)

    January 11 — China shared the genetic sequence of the novel coronavirus on 12 January, which will be of great importance for other countries to use in developing specific diagnostic kits.
    https://www.who.int/csr/don/12-january-2020-novel-coronavirus-china/en/

    ……

    It takes ~ 4 to 6 months to go from virus to vaccine for a lot of people.

    “In China, the Communist Party’s 87.7 million members, or 1 in 16 Chinese, hold nearly every top position in government, military, education, state-owned enterprises, health care, and banking.”
    https://daily.jstor.org/communist-party-of-china/

    Liked by 4 people

      1. Unfortunately President Trump needs to make a decision on this virus ASAP. (Close down international flights & seaports or quarantine or ??? REALLY CLOSE the Mexican border…)

        He may be waiting on the return of the Embassy staff to get a first hand account before making that decision.

        Liked by 4 people

        1. Critical points you made. USG employees AND Americans need to be evacuated. REQUIRES China cooperate with charter flights in / out of quarantine.

          THEN, consider, our allies will want to piggy back on our effort.

          Wuhan to Andersen AFB, Guam 2,275 miles. Also a huge AFB, great infrastructure and superb surge capacity. Naval hospital.

          AND, IF we want our chartered AC to land in a third country, US must play nice. Help that country evacuate its citizens. Not a big deal in this drill. NOT overwhelming numbers to evacuate.

          Okinawa is under 900 miles to Okinawa. Kadena AB is HUGE. Great infrastructure, surge capability. Naval hospital.

          Liked by 1 person

        2. How do they protect the president? If it’s that contagious, I don’t see how he could meet with anyone coming from China. Of course, he could just receive reports or meet with embassy staff remotely, but I don’t see how he can be protected in general, with all the people he deals with and all the places he goes.

          Liked by 2 people

          1. WH is sterile fortress in many ways. Staff can be limited. Nonessential sent home.

            In this case, with the incubation period, surely nothing face to face. Conference call would be my guess.

            Incubation period I have read five days and moar recently eight to ten days. Dunno reality.

            Like

        3. Surely cables are sent from the Consulate to DoS, Pompeo. They may get routed through the Embassy in Beijing for protocol reasons. Let the Ambassador see them first.

          Moar likely, me thinks a cable From Wuhan Consulate TO DoS Pompeo, INFO Embassy in Beijing and a host of other DoS schmucks. Military works this way when information IS TIME SENSITIVE, as seems the case here.

          AND direct calls, conference calls Wuhan Consulate to DoS Pompeo, WH, Embassy Beijing…

          BUT, priority IS get US citizens out of Wuhan. For that matter China. Wonder how many USG employees in China? How many American expats in China? Latter a big number. Yea, I can’t define big number in this case 😉

          Like

          1. WIKI: An estimate published in 2018 counted 600,000 people of other nations living in China, with 12% of those from the US; that means approximately 72,000 Americans living in China. Based on data collected in 1999, when 64,602 Americans resided in China, most resided in Hong Kong (48,220 in 1999),

            So ~20,000 Americans or so outside of Hong Kong.

            Liked by 1 person

            1. Wow. Big numbers for sure. Outside of Hong Kong, 20,000 passengers. IF the problem is what is being surmised, wonder how many already departed? No way to know.

              IF it gets to a full evacuation, doable.
              ~ Forty flights of 747s or like AC. Distances are short, so, multiple flights per day for each AC used.
              – Fuel is NOT an issue. Probably have medical embarked on all flights in. Logistics puzzle, but doable.
              – At first destination, screen AND wait out incubation period. Then move them to US or wherever they need to go.
              – AND, I only addressed outside of Hong Kong. It’s simply a bigger number to manage. Same concept.

              – Quick search shows 747 varying capacity.
              The 747-400 can carry 416 passengers in a typical three-class layout, 524 passengers in a typical two-class layout, or 660 passengers in a high–density one-class configuration.

              *https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=747+passenger+capacity

              Think I’ll quit what iffing for now.

              FWIW, logistics plans are what I did for many a year for the Navy.

              Like

              1. Assuming comment is serious, AF would NEVER do that. Cargo bays of C-5 and C-17 can be configured for passengers.

                – Rather sure commercfial AC cost to fly per hour and maintain is less than AF AC.
                – Parts and maintenance for commercial AC moar readily available.

                Commercial aircraft better suited for massive movements of passengers.

                AND, it is a permissive environment – no shooting.

                Like

        4. Exactly. We need good information. Don’t overreact, but DO NOT underreact!!! I think the idea that we are NOT going to provide an “escape magnet” is a strong assist to Chinese authorities. People need to shelter in place – not flee.

          Liked by 3 people

  14. Ok, seems like a LOT of hair on fire here, which unusual for this group.
    Yes, it seems this is likely an intentionally released virus,
    HOWEVER, it is very manageable. Are a lot of people likely to catch this, potentially, the answer is yes. HOWEVER, is anyone here NOT going to treat this? No.

    ELDERBERRY SYRUP (Sambucus nigra) is a great anti-viral, and also has some anti-bacterial properties. There are a plethra of available studies, and it is approved by Germany’s Commisdion E. (Butterflygrl, antibiotics work on bacteria, anti-virals work on viruses.)

    You MAY get sick, may have to use ELDERBERRY SYRUP, FEVER CONTROL, fluids, and possibly steroids. If nCORv has a secondary infection like bacterial pneumonia, there are anti-biotics that can be added, and other anti-virals. If it follows SARS, then a respirator may be needed. Catching cornona virus is NOT instant death.

    The point is, if you catch this, TREAT IT! I agree, first option is prevention, but this is very treatable, esp in the US. The media is trying to induce panic and control the narrative. Influenza and coronavirus have been around a long time. They still haven’t publicly released what strain of nCORv this is.

    You guys are one of the most rational, reasonable, diverse, thoughtful group I’ve found on the internet so far, but this page seems to be filled with stress today. It is ok to be concerned, and pissed, but don’t let their narrative keep you up all night.

    Prevent catching the flu, or any virus, when you can, TREAT it if you can’t prevent it.

    https://bmccomplementmedtherapies.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1472-6882-11-16

    This article helps explain elderberry. There are many reputable brands, Sambucol, Nature’s Way, Nature’s Answer. There are also recipies if you want to make your own syrup. If a secondary broncitis starts, these companies also carry a “Kids” product, which is elderberry and usually echinacea p.and echinacea a.. Elderberry syrup can be used daily, but echinacea needs to be paused after 6 weeks of use, and can be re-started after a 2 week break.

    Hopefully, this helps ease any worries. Yes, corona has a higher mortality rate than flu A or B, but so does anything left untreated, even stepping on a rusty nail.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Another great and cheap anti viral is high dose Vitamin C. Look up Andrew W. Saul at DoctorYourself.com and Vitamin C. I have used this myself and stopped the common cold virus. You have to use high doses for it to work.

      Like

      1. Kym…best diagnostic general Practitioner I’ve ever known (and I’ve worked with hundreds) told me this close to 40 years ago. I’ve never forgotten it and have used that advice ever since…as you say, high doses…every hour until your body stops using it and you just pee it away.

        Liked by 1 person

        1. When you reach bowel tolerance, you reduce the dosage of the vitamin C and continue at that dosage until all symptoms are gone. Last year I got the real flu for the first time in my life. It was brutal for a couple of days. I had nothing to take, as I was ignorant about high dose vitamin C and the usual otc med I take were out of stock everywhere, including Amazon. I use Oscillococcimum to reduce the severity and duration of flu symptoms such as body aches and fever. Its homeopathic. I have been using it for colds and fever viruses for over 10 years. Great for adults and children over the age of 2.

          Like

      1. No need.
        I think we’re trying to decide if we need to light our hair on fire……. which the real source of the pathogen is…….. and what social media info is real and what is not.
        We’re all so suspicious anyway.

        Liked by 5 people

  15. From Smiley2 post above.
    “Communist Cover-Up…Nurse Treating Coronavirus in China Claims 90,000 Infected (VIDEO)”

    IF, IF, IF, 90,000 accurate in Hubei Province (Wuhan located in that province), AND the US has a Consulate in Wuhan, then surely the USG knows this.

    AND, USG has NOT told Americans about this HUGE number, as opposed to the 1,500 number in the public domain a couple days ago.

    AND, USG DOS employees in Wuhan have NOT sounded this alarming number, 90,000.

    AND, no other government has reported such a number…Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Japan, South Korea, Canada, UK…

    AND, the EXPAT community has NOT been howling loudly…AND they’d know…AND THEY WOULD HOWL big time.

    SO, based on the above, I am NOT buying into this 90,000 number.
    – Wait 24-48 hours. VERIFY the outrageous…way out there claims.

    Me thinks 😉

    Liked by 4 people

    1. appreciate yr post…who knows…

      90,000 sounds alarmingly high….but I’d think nurses & doctors, in the thick of it, would be likely to know, perhaps, a lot sooner than others…

      and many other reports saying the communists are trying to keep a lid on the full truth getting out…no secret, no surprise there..

      and, frankly, I don’t think it’s necessarily “outrageous”…or “way out there”…

      Liked by 3 people

      1. Agree. IF the report IS roughly accurate. Simply tossing caution that verification IS reasonable.

        AND, I 100% don’t believe the Chinese government. ZERO doubt in my mind the 1,500 number of a couple days ago was way low.

        Liked by 2 people

        1. As I said I think POTUS will want a debriefing ASAP of the US gov’t people coming back from China.

          We should know more in a couple of days.

          In the mean time stocking supplies will not hurt.

          Liked by 4 people

          1. Yes.

            AND, tomorrow I will be augmenting my normal stockpile of food, water, medical stuff and misc stuff, with items tailored to what this drill looks it could evolve into.

            Liked by 3 people

    2. It’s good to be cautious, Kalbo.🙂

      Here’s the thing, though…this has been going on over there for a couple of months now.

      While it’s ‘news’ to us, it’s been going on for awhile.
      So, I dunno…given that the ChiComs lie about everything, that 90K number might be closer to the truth.

      I hope our VSG shuts down all travel to China soon.
      Seems like it’s warranted at this point.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. OH, I agree. Simply surprised we have not heard about the huge significance of the problem – numbers infected from sources beyond a “masked nurse.”

        Logic tells me we should have ALSO heard moar from one or moar of the following:
        – USG DOS employees in Wuhan, OR throughout China.
        – Other countries that have consulates in Wuhan, OR throughout China.
        – EXPATS in Wuhan OR throughout China raising hell.
        ^^^ This IS significant! Me thinks.

        AND, AND, AND, this has been going on for months…AND only trickling out now?

        I really have no problem quarantining ALL of China. Shut down flights, ports of all types…

        Reality is I’d prefer we did zero business with China. BUT, Nixon screwed that up royally.

        Liked by 2 people

        1. And then Clinton compounded it by a million % when he gave China most favored nation status AND our nukes AND our guidance system AND our factories….

          Liked by 4 people

      1. We don’t. Which is what drove my, why have we not heard from other sources…USG, other governments, EXPATS…

        Nor do we know the translation is anything near what the text said.

        24-48 hour rule in effect by me.

        Liked by 2 people

      2. That crossed my mind…lord, I hate to be so cynical! The part that gave her statement authenticity for me was the Chinese New Years reference…this is their main holiday of the entire year and even if you do not see your family at any other time, this is a very important occasion….perhaps the only gift exchange holiday. Other Asian countries, as well. So, for her to beg people to stay inside and not go to the family celebrations gave it credence for me.

        Liked by 2 people

      3. Was pondering that “nurse” video a couple hours ago. Besides we don’t know if she is a real nurse, in China, in Hubei Province, in Wuhan OR if the translation is accurate.

        Reason I was pondering that video is, she speaks very monotone. ZERO emotion. No urgency noticeable.

        Have been in at least six Asian countries. Absolutely, while I could not speak the languages, I could tell emotion, or at least serious emphasis was spoke. Seemingly missing in that video. ODD. Me thinks.

        Not trying to downplay the potential serious health crisis that may be looming.

        Related. Read earlier, ONLY CDC can verify Coronavirus. Single point of failure not a good thing. IMO

        We surely need moar facts AND a steady flow of information.

        Liked by 2 people

        1. I read from the CDC site and posted a link somewhere that the CDC will assist with and instruct in obtaining, storing, and TRANSPORTING suspicious samples for diagnostics. Made my eyebrows shoot straight up, almost as high as Nanzi’s

          Like

  16. Re-typing, think the last post is binned.
    OK, seems like a LOT of hair on fire, which is unusual for this group.
    Yes, it seems like this is an intentionally released virus.
    HOWEVER, it is very manageable. Are a lot of people going to catch this?
    Potentially, the answer is “yes”. HOWEVER, is anyone NOT going to treat this? No.

    ELDERBERRY SYRUP (Sambucus nigra) is a great anti-viral, and also has some anti-bacterial properties. There are a plethra of available studies. (Butterflygrl, antibiotics work on bacteria, anti-virals work on viruses.)

    You MAY get sick, may have to use Eldetberry syrup, fever control, fluids, and possibly steroids. If nCORv has a secondary infection like bacterial pneumonia, there are antibiotics that can be added, and other anti-virals. If it worsens, then a respirator may be needed. Point is, treatments are available. Catching corona virus is NOT instant death.

    The point is, if you catch this, TREAT IT! I agree, first option is prevention, but this is very treatable, esp in the US. The media is trying to induce panic and control the narrative. Influenza and coronavirus have been around a long time. They still haven’t publucally released what strain of corona this is.

    You guys are one of the most rational, reasonable, diverse, thoughtful group I’ve found on the internet, so far, but this page seems to be filled with stress today. It is ok to be concerned, and pissed, but don’t let their narrative keep you up all night.

    Prevent catching the fly, or any virus, when you can. TREAT it if you can’t prevent it.

    This article helps explain elderberry. There are many reputable brands. Sambucol, Nature’s Way, Nature’s Answer. There are also recipues if you want to make your own syrup. If a secondary bronchitis starts, these companies also carry a “kids” product, which is elderberry n. and usually echinacea p. and echinacea a.. Elderberry syrup can be used daily, but echinacea needs to ve paused after 6 weeks of use, and can be restarted after a 2 week break.

    Hopefully this helps ease any worries. Yes, corona has a highet mortality rate tha flu A or flu B, but so does most anything left untreated, even stepping on a rusty nail. Don’t let the bastards get you down!

    https://bmccomplementmedtherapies.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1472-6882-11-16

    Liked by 5 people

    1. I think most of the concern is because it could be an escaped Bio-Weapon AND because the Chinese are notorious liars as is the media.

      Having Dr Eric Feigl-Ding fan the flames doesn’t help.

      I am P.O.d because basic common sense (quarantine) has been tossed due to BUSINESS INTERESTS and thus we have a lot of old diseases and new showing up in our domestic livestock that could EASILY have been prevented by quarantine before importing.

      Also BUSINESS INTERESTS have tied the USA tightly to international trade, and an illegal and H1b work force and again promoted disease. This is just the latest example.

      My biggest problem is the ‘opportunity’ this give the President’s enemies.

      Liked by 5 people

      1. I should add, I expect President Trump to make a statement about this VERY SOON.

        He has that Rally in Wildwood, NJ on January 28, two days away and people will be starting to line up.

        If he needs to cancel because of the disease risk he needs to do that Monday morning at the latest.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. legitimate concerns over a possible pandemic

        legitimate concerns over under-reporting

        legitimate concerns as to what might be next , if anything

        legitimate concerns about how this got started , and by whom… and why…

        legitimate concerns about the spectre of biowarfare

        …just a few points of interest that make for a compelling discussion, imo.

        …and…I’m not seeing anybody’s “hair on fire” here.

        just a healthy intelligent robust discussion.

        Liked by 3 people

        1. I apologize, and retract the “hair on fire”. After re-reading the entire thread, the stressors are more coming from the news stories and twts being posted, NOT the posters themselves. My bad. Thank you, Smiley, for organizing that thought. Will go soak in the gulf…..

          Liked by 2 people

    2. I agree that the virus seems like something that can be treated and recovered from, for the most part. I don’t think anyone here is panicking.

      Probably everyone knows someone with a compromised or weaker immune system (the ill, the elderly, etc.) who shouldn’t be exposed to something like this. Those are the people who end up in the hospital and have a higher mortality rate.

      But there are many layers of interest to this situation: the international and business aspect that affects decision-making, the personal desire to keep onself and loved ones healthy, the element of the unknown (whether reports are true, whether it’s mutating, whether travel will be stopped and our lives will be affected, etc.), and the human interest aspect that is as gripping as a movie like Contagion. To be living through a possible pandemic not seen in 100 years is both concerning and fascinating. All of that generates discussion.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I think the discussion is healthy.

        We haul out all the bits of information, inspect it, see how it fits together, reject the pieces that are outlandish. That is the ‘political aspect’

        There is also the pro-active discussion.
        Alcohol, elderberry, chlorox, borax, stocking food, minimizing contact and routes of infection…

        Many of us are not young and have health issues so minimizing risk is prudent esp. since hospitals are a great place to pick up infections and should be avoided if possible.

        Liked by 7 people

        1. “I think the discussion is healthy.”
          I agree. Different perspectives provide food for thought and information that can be very useful, now and in the future. And that information is not just about health remedies.

          Liked by 3 people

        2. Oh, I agree, there has been healthy discussion here! Gail and Wheetie pointing out the timeline shows the media spin. This is an older virus, which has been noticable dince early Dec, but just now being reported on. The media says “49 dead”, etc, and mis-leads the public into thinking 49 dead in the last 2 days. Also, media says “no cure”, very misleading as corona is “treatable”.

          Pro-active is key. We are the news means being able to put many pieces on the table to see the big picture, that would otherwise be too time consuming to track down. This page is a blessing! The idea that we the people can see how they are trying to orchestrate a potential black swan, and prepare for it, cope with it, push back, is awesome!

          Liked by 2 people

  17. Is this a Shanghai Lockdown?

    Like

    1. “Some scientists outside China worry about pathogens escaping, and the addition of a biological dimension to geopolitical tensions between China and other nations. But Chinese microbiologists are celebrating their entrance to the elite cadre empowered to wrestle with the world’s greatest biological threats.”

      Liked by 2 people

  18. This virus could be used as a bio-weapon
    – at rallies.
    – against Trump supporters.
    – against Bernie supporters.
    – against whomever the cabal considers ‘undesirables’…..

    Liked by 1 person

  19. Viewing this from a geo-political standpoint, this is the final nail in the China coffin. John Hinderaker, the best of a fine group (less Mirengoff) at Powerline, drives that nail with sledgehammer in this excellent piece. Also, however, he gives excellent historical perspective to the left’s dishonesty and dissidence which, as media controllers, gave them free reign to perpetuate China myths and falsehoods as for their own anti-American hate.

    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/01/the-china-myth-exposed.php?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+powerlineblog%2Flivefeed+%28Power+Line%29

    Liked by 6 people

    1. Excellent article.

      I did chuckle at the eat your brussel sprouts remark in it as my husband had a similiar experience as a child, but he replied that the offending food item should be shipped over to China. His remark was not appreciated.

      Liked by 3 people

  20. The words “Pandemic” and “panic” from the common Greek root “pan” meaning “common to all people or things.” In this simple word root we can find comfort and hope for our society in whatever this disease may bring. We, as a people whose espouse common Judeo-Christian values and interests, are NOT China. We are the polar opposite of China. As black is to white, up is to down, as wet is to dry, our national DNA will most assuredly allow us to confront this virus in a united way, just as we banded together to defeat another pandemic – WWII. This disease will devastate China because it is bad AND because their national DNA is so different. Their people are trained NOT to think, not to be independent but only to look to earthly government for safety and solace. And they will panic – for those very reasons and they will do things in utter disregard of the greater good – like escape Hunan, go to France and brag about going to restaurants. We will not panic. We will deal – with whatever it is and whatever it takes. Come what may.

    Liked by 4 people

  21. Liked by 5 people

  22. From the Daily Thread:

    New China virus, Swine Flu hoax, history matters
    by Jon Rappoport

    January 25, 2020

    I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but…history matters.

    When you see a new story on the horizon, and it looks a lot like an old story you know was a hoax, you have to dig up that history and report it.

    https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2020/01/25/new-china-virus-swine-flu-hoax-history-matters/

    This is beginning to look like a possible ELECTION YEAR Manufactured Useful Crisis.
    China has motive not to want Trump re-elected and so do the Democraps who have exhausted every other of their usual tricks.

    Remember when Sharyl Atkisson exposed the Zika virus hype/hoax?

    Liked by 5 people

    1. If China … or Globalists … manufactured this sucker, they’re staring at Economic Suicide.
      [See below]

      Imagine how rapidly the Return-to-USA movement can ACCELERATE
      … whipped by our Mendaciously-Marauding Media
      … from CHINA and OTHER infected countries
      … IRREVERSIBLY!

      Liked by 4 people

  23. You can purchase elderberry jelly in the form of a preserve from this site:

    https://www.spoon.com/limited-seasonal-specialties

    It’s pricey. Hover over the item with the cursor and click on “learn more”.

    They’ve been in business here in northern Michigan for about 30 years, and offer many other ‘from the wild’ products. High quality and high integrity in what they make.

    The page with elderberry:

    https://www.spoon.com/wild-elderberry-jelly.html

    Liked by 3 people

    1. The component needed to fight viruses is damaged in both elderberry jam and elderberry wine, so neither of those is a good choice for flu-fighters. Wish it wasn’t so. I will try to find the article.

      Liked by 1 person

  24. MEGA ISSUES for CoronaVirus:
    • How to feed China?
    • Where can Chinese risk working alongside peers?
    • How interdependent are quarantined & non-quarantined cities & provinces?
    • How much have infected people mingled with others for Lunar New Year?
    • How many have traveled to other Countries?
    • How many foreigners interacted with exposed Chinese inside & outside China?

    When will Countries begin to QUARANTINE China itself?

    When will Countries EXPEL Chinese for self-preservation?

    Will other Countries REJECT IMPORTS from China?

    Will China’s Belt & Road TAKEOVERS of other countries be TERMINATED?
    • Can countries afford the EXPOSURE?
    • Can China continue the “INVESTMENT”?

    ALERT: China’s stock market dropped 2.75% on Thursday, January 23rd.
    • It’s CLOSED from Friday January 24th through Thursday the 30th.
    • IMAGINE the Pent-up CoronaVirus PANIC as media Flogs the Fear!
    • CHINA-MARKET EXODUS on the 31st before another weekend?

    Liked by 9 people

    1. Potential Pandemic Multipliers:
      • Cities with Teeming Populations in VERY close quarters
      • Massive dependence on “mingling movement” (Public Transport, Biking & Walking)
      • Labor-Intensive Handling in every part of the Economy and Food Production

      Liked by 8 people

  25. Wonder what the protocol for SHIPMENT of specimens is?? From CDC…..

    Q: How do you test a person for 2019-nCoV?

    A: At this time, diagnostic testing for 2019-nCoV can be conducted only at CDC.

    State and local health departments who have identified a person under investigation (PUI) should immediately notify CDC’s Emergency Operations Center (EOC) at 770-488-7100 to report the PUI and determine whether testing for 2019-nCoV at CDC is indicated. The EOC will assist local/state health departments to collect, store, and ship specimens appropriately to CDC, including during afterhours or on weekends/holidays.

    Liked by 1 person

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